EP 009 | Growth Under Pressure: How Joe Testouri Rebuilt After a £53K Scam and Built an AI Consultancy — with Joe Testouri

Joe Testouri is an entrepreneur, strategist, and host of the Grappling With Growth podcast who built an AI-focused agency and education business after early hustles, pivots, and a devastating financial scam. His story shows how founders can recover from crisis, adopt AI to scale more efficiently, and stay grounded through discipline, humility, and customer obsession.

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🌟 Highlights

• Building a business from childhood hustles and side projects to a full pivot into AI systems and automation
  
  
• The £53K bank scam that almost wiped out his cash and how he fought to make payroll and keep the team together
  
  
• Why becoming obsessed with customer experience is the real lever behind lifetime value and growth
  
  
• How AI agents, automation, and custom workflows are replacing low-value tasks and making small teams more efficient
  
  
• The role of humility, consistency, and health—reinforced by jiu-jitsu and a serious back injury—in navigating founder pressure
  
  
• Why founders must stay curious, collaborate instead of compete, and reject “victim mentality” when things go wrong

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⏱️ Timestamps / Chapters

00:00 — Defining growth: getting 1% better and leading with integrity and compassion
02:20 — Lessons from hosting Grappling With Growth and learning from founders around the world
04:30 — Childhood entrepreneurship, getting bullied at school, and quitting banking to start his own agency
09:50 — From ad agency to AI consultancy: rebranding, blue-ocean thinking, and focusing on efficiency
17:00 — Building AI-powered outreach, scheduling agents, and improving customer experience and LTV
24:30 — Practical AI tools founders can use daily (Whisperflow, Fireflies, Gamma, and more)
33:00 — Growth under pressure: losing £53K to fraud, scrambling for payroll, and getting the money back
44:20 — Finance discipline, the value of strong accounting partners, and why founders shouldn’t DIY everything
48:40 — The real founder journey: health scares, burnout risk, and engineering healthier team cultures
55:40 — Jiu-jitsu, humility, and why business isn’t a zero-sum game
59:00 — Rapid fire: watching cash balances, a must-read book, and advice for founders under pressure

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Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:20:01
Eric Josovitz
Welcome back to Growth under Pressure. I'm your host, Eric Johnson. It's today. I'm joined by entrepreneur and podcaster Joe Tessitore, a strategist, podcaster, a consultant, a coach and a Brazilian jiu jitsu beast. Joe, thanks for joining. I want to learn a little bit about your background, but first I want to get a taste. I want to give you a taste of your own medicine.

00:00:20:09 - 00:00:22:10
Eric Josovitz
So what does growth look like to you?

00:00:23:21 - 00:00:40:11
Joe Testouri
Well, an amazing question, and I've asked that so many times to people. First and foremost, thank you for having me on the podcast. It's a pleasure. And it's great to see that you've brought this actually to life because a lot of people talk about producing the podcast, but they never get round to it and we know you've got a few in the back.

00:00:40:20 - 00:01:06:24
Joe Testouri
What does growth look like to me? I always think growth looks like the cliché getting 1% better every single day and is a form of that. I think growth to me is just a case of making actionable, compounding steps. Every day that moves me closer to the man that I want to be. So I've got a visualized figment of who I want to be at 40 years old.

00:01:07:03 - 00:01:35:03
Joe Testouri
And it's really when I strip this back and I sort of came to this this goal about a year and a half ago, I really sat down with my student self and said, Who do I want to be? And it was it was trying to achieve and become a certain individual by the age of 40. And I'm sure when they hit 40, hopefully if I get that and then beyond that was thought to change and adapt and that's what growth looks like to me.

00:01:35:03 - 00:01:43:09
Joe Testouri
It looks like getting closer to that visualized state of that person who leads with integrity, who respects everyone and does his best by people.

00:01:45:04 - 00:02:01:09
Eric Josovitz
Mm hmm. So growing not just uncontrollable, but a controlled growth. And like we talked about before, leading with your heart, having integrity, so growing with compassion and love. Is that safe to say?

00:02:02:11 - 00:02:04:18
Joe Testouri
Yeah, that's a beautiful way to summarize it.

00:02:06:05 - 00:02:37:02
Eric Josovitz
And you've you've had so many. And for our listeners, you built the Grappling with Growth podcast and we have the Growth Under Pressure podcast. Just funny that we got introduced and I created the podcast name before I met you. It just seems so perfect because there are so many founders grappling with growth. Of course, you know, you pick that name and you always ask that question, You know, what is your form of growth like?

00:02:37:03 - 00:02:45:26
Eric Josovitz
Is there. Is there one podcast guest or are there a few other aspects of growth that you've taken away from other people that have joined?

00:02:47:18 - 00:03:17:17
Joe Testouri
Absolutely. I would say just being candidly honest, you get some guests who you've really rivet in conversating with compared to others, they can just take the camera or they're curious or they ask questions. And I will say that every guest I've had on, I've been able to learn something from everyone. And I was reading something yesterday that was saying you should be able to learn something from everyone, even your enemies or your competitors.

00:03:17:17 - 00:03:42:03
Joe Testouri
And I think it's fundamentally it's about looking at different worldviews that people have and then taking them in. And I think one of the best things I've got out of podcasting is I'm just enhancing my worldview. It's like you've got so many different flavors and so many different approaches to one formula, and everyone's done things in a slightly nuanced way.

00:03:42:05 - 00:03:55:15
Joe Testouri
So absolutely, I couldn't pinpoint one guest because I think that would be like picking a favorite child. And I know you can't do that. So that would be my my way of escaping out of that question.

00:03:56:20 - 00:04:17:14
Eric Josovitz
Yeah, that's good. And you're, you know, your global podcast. You're talking to people around the world. You're based out of the U.K. of course, you're traveling a lot as well. So you're not just just there. You know, it's so interesting to me that you can expand your mind to that level. I mean, that's a that's a big aspect of growth.

00:04:18:09 - 00:04:38:24
Eric Josovitz
Tell me, let's just learn a little bit about your background real quick. Tell me, you know, what made you jump into entrepreneurship, Kosta? You know, coaching, mentoring and marketing, of course, and and now hosting a podcast, which you just recorded your 84th episode. And I know you're doing more than just that.

00:04:40:01 - 00:05:00:29
Joe Testouri
Absolutely. So I'll give the listeners a bit of a background to my childhood and then piece that into how that kind of led to the the road and route of entrepreneurship. So I was born and raised in London, and most people who are in London now not born and raised in London. So whenever I'm out and I tell people I'm actually from here.

00:05:01:18 - 00:05:24:10
Joe Testouri
Excuse me. Oh, boy. And yeah, so I grew up in inner city London. I didn't really like school altogether. I got bullied quite a lot. And with that, there are a few things that I loved professional wrestling that was like kind of my escapism when I was a kid. I still love it now, entrepreneurship as well, and I give a lot of credit to my father.

00:05:24:10 - 00:05:49:09
Joe Testouri
He he's been an entrepreneur. He's run his own business since I can remember. We used to go down and we do Sunday markets selling power tools and with that and even before I remember, I was eight, nine years old, I four and I didn't even know the wide scale scalability, but I would make comic books, Simpsons comic books draw them myself.

00:05:49:09 - 00:06:08:00
Joe Testouri
And I tried to sell them at school. And the idea and the concept was actually pretty clever because I generated a waitlist. So I went round, went round to all of the kids and said, Hey, this book is going to cost over £2, about two and a half dollars. And if you want one, put your name on it and I'll get these out next week and that was crazy.

00:06:08:00 - 00:06:26:13
Joe Testouri
Anyways, that got stopped by men, but that was the first taste I had of entrepreneurship and my mum was the person who basically was funding it. She said, Go for it. And that was a start. And then as I went on. So chocolates and sweets at school kind of a thing to do if you're a little boy around here in London.

00:06:26:13 - 00:06:45:16
Joe Testouri
And I always had this spark for just trying to, I don't want to say innovate, but I guess it's arbitrage when you're getting a product from for a and then selling it for Y, It's just figuring out how to be the middleman. So that was the background. Fast forward to university or college for the listeners in the States.

00:06:45:16 - 00:07:16:06
Joe Testouri
I was in a place where I would always just try things. I was just selling tobacco. I was a funny one. My friend got some tobacco from Poland, pennies really bad. And yet that operation was closed very, very quickly. And that was just an example. And in my master's year of university and I'm very grateful for this, I was essentially able to work towards obtaining a masters while starting my original business bespoke brand developers.

00:07:16:06 - 00:07:37:13
Joe Testouri
And with that I was doing all the wrong things. I was spending way too long on pretty picture content that was on Facebook that was getting five likes and a logo and business cards. But I was really grateful for that because I didn't have the pressure of financial constraints being at uni. Just doing this on the side is a bit of a passion project.

00:07:37:13 - 00:08:01:01
Joe Testouri
So at that point I went into the city of London, worked in banking for an investment bank, but I just knew at that moment I'd rather I'd rather grow on the pressure for lack of better terms and go all in on said business. So May 2019 I quit my job and I always just thought to myself, I can go back to this.

00:08:01:01 - 00:08:26:07
Joe Testouri
I've got a masters, I can get back into the city. What's the worst case scenario? And I think Jeff Bezos, he mentions the point about revolving doors. If you have a door that you can go straight back out for and there's next to no consequences, okay? The opportunities lost is I don't make as much on savings or my career progression if I was to go back into that job.

00:08:26:13 - 00:08:49:00
Joe Testouri
It's hosted by Don't Live a Life based off of what ifs. I went all in and the first year was really hard. And I think there's a lack of accountability on myself that you probably, you know, the issue. So it's easy to neglect the things you don't have to do when no one's watching. So it's kind of doing the invisible work that compounds as time goes on.

00:08:49:00 - 00:09:15:03
Joe Testouri
So fast forward to today that business that originally started as an advertising agency pivoted at the SlideShare into a AI consultant, and that business is now repositioned or rebranded from bespoke brand developers to bespoke agency A.I.. That kind of goes with a sister brand, Bespoke Academy, which focuses on helping people get off their jobs and scale their businesses.

00:09:15:03 - 00:09:24:26
Joe Testouri
But the main focus and what we're doing right now is focused on AI adoption implementation and essentially making businesses more efficient.

00:09:26:04 - 00:09:45:01
Eric Josovitz
MM That's so good. I want to learn what you're doing these days, but I want to go back to what you said about the worst case scenario as an entrepreneur, because that's usually our mindset. It's, hey, if I, if this doesn't work out, am I going to be on the streets begging for money or like, am I going to be dead?

00:09:45:01 - 00:10:06:15
Eric Josovitz
You know, our our first moment, our first mindset goes to and I heard Alex, were you talking about this? Of course, he's this extreme version and he always he always, you know, throws out these really aggressive scenarios. He's like, well, what's what's like the worst case scenario? Okay, I lose my house, I lose my car. But I still have my family.

00:10:06:26 - 00:10:28:24
Eric Josovitz
And, you know, I could go stay. I could go, you know, sleep on a friend's couch and I'll get back on my feet. And that's, you know, as humans, I think. And that's what he said. We go to this. If it doesn't work out, we're going to die. And that's just not true. So really love to hear your background growing up in London.

00:10:29:28 - 00:10:58:10
Eric Josovitz
So jumping forward now to bespoke AI and I've seen a little bit of that, a little bit of what you're working on and what you've done. So give us a quick snapshot of your company, what you're doing these days, what's driving growth and how you're able to grow. Both Bespoke and the podcast would love to learn a little bit more specifically on, you know, what you're doing these days to grow those two things.

00:10:59:05 - 00:11:25:06
Joe Testouri
Absolutely. So the start of the podcast, because that's older than the new rebrand, the podcast started with myself and a friend in a fleeting conversation. I was in Australia pretty much this time four years ago, and probably as the cases you and John jumping on calls or everyone's got friends, if you're in the entrepreneur Explorer space, you've always got a friend who does something similar to you.

00:11:26:06 - 00:11:53:20
Joe Testouri
So we would just jump in cause and the idea was, what if we turn these conversations into a podcast? So we ruminated on the idea for a little bit. Not friends could erode. Amazing friend of mine. We started the podcast initially in January 2020 free and it it was a crap show. It was really bad. And we were just just we had no process, no system, nothing together.

00:11:54:15 - 00:12:13:05
Joe Testouri
And it was just and I'm really proud and glad we did it that way because again, to who knows, it or paraphrase him, it's more about the person who just get stuff done and get the reputation in as opposed to just waiting for something to be perfect. Nothing's ever going to be perfect and wait for it to be perfect.

00:12:13:21 - 00:12:50:25
Joe Testouri
You're probably waiting a bit too long. So fast forward from that. He went off, did his own thing. As I said, we're still really, really good friends and I'm just continue the podcast by myself. I think he left that about episode 20 or just before then. So it's been a bit of home run and I can probably say that I think we've been on a weekly scheduling cadence of a podcast a week for just over a year now, which is amazing, and that has allowed me to just stay really curious, a really broad and as I say, my worldview and talking to people and it's exciting shooting podcasts and talking to guests.

00:12:50:25 - 00:13:22:02
Joe Testouri
And I think it teach you a new and different lens of humility because you realize actually, I don't know as much as I think I've educated about certain subjects talking about bespoke agency I that was birthed, I was in Colombia and I know that you're a big fan of South America and I read a book on a I and it was beautiful because I was pretty much staying with a friend and his family by stimulating things.

00:13:22:03 - 00:13:36:12
Joe Testouri
This was over Christmas, and I'll be curious to learn how you spend that time of year. The gap between Christmas and New Year's. How does that look like for you? What do you typically get up to? It's.

00:13:36:24 - 00:14:06:06
Eric Josovitz
You know, no work, pretty much, you know, family. You know, I grew up Jewish, so Christmas didn't happen until I met my wife. And then I got my first Christmas tree. And now we celebrate Christmas and Hanukkah. It's it's a very interesting time of year. And my wife's birthday's on December 26th. So it's literally like and then all my kids birthdays are January 10th, 15th and 20th.

00:14:06:19 - 00:14:33:25
Eric Josovitz
It's like the perfect counting kids birthdays. Somehow. I mean, I'm just like praying between Christmas and New Year that we're going to be blessed in the New Year. But yeah, it's just it's a time when, you know, I may do a little bit of work on like the 27, 28th, 29th, getting ready, you know, planning just all strategy.

00:14:34:09 - 00:14:57:18
Eric Josovitz
But it's it's really just a time to reflect take a step back right out. Hey, how do I want this year to go? I'm super intentional with everything I put into each year and set really high goals, hit those targets. But if you look at my list, it's both personal and business. So how can I be a better father?

00:14:58:05 - 00:15:12:15
Eric Josovitz
How can I be a better person? What did I do this year? I look back at my goals, so it's like it's a balance between spending time with family and being intentional strategic for the new Year.

00:15:13:25 - 00:15:42:29
Joe Testouri
It's just that's why I, I, I love that little period between Christmas and New Year's because you being someone who runs a service based business, typically clients, I'm talking to you, then that's probably the only period of the year where I found and then August has been for long. So it's good to get your holidays in that buy off because I was curious to learn your perspective or how you enjoy that period.

00:15:42:29 - 00:16:03:00
Joe Testouri
And for me it's a big reflection piece. It's you can just go for a walk for the holiday to a park or wherever. And I always get excited about that little small period there. So it was in that period I ended up reading a whole book on I in about four days, I think it's three days. And I was just hooked.

00:16:03:00 - 00:16:29:24
Joe Testouri
It was already something I was really curious about and I already did some deep research and so I read that book and then I joined very advanced Air Program. And from there I just thought this is where the the opportunity over the next at least ten years is going to be. So for me, being an entrepreneur, you have choices and it's all about what you can control.

00:16:29:24 - 00:16:49:18
Joe Testouri
I can't control if a market is a red ocean or blue ocean, but I can control what ocean I want to go into. And I don't understand Red Ocean. And quite honestly, I was quite tired of operating in a red ocean. So we moved over to the blue ocean, so to speak, that name leaping artificial intelligence. And we just got obsessed.

00:16:49:18 - 00:17:23:05
Joe Testouri
We moved away from just pure marketing strategy to development of custom specific systems for our clients and building out workflows and looking at how we can build agents. And essentially we're looking and we've become so and this is looking at Mark Cuban, the all the famous amazing entrepreneurs who've done so much. But it's about and this is the big point that I get from my guest is if you want to become successful in business, you need to become obsessed with your customer experience.

00:17:23:22 - 00:17:51:19
Joe Testouri
And that's really what we've been doing this year. It's about how do we give our clients the best customer experience? So we lower our own rates, we increase our lifetime value, we just do the best work possible because if we have happier clients, we're going increase our LTV. So instead of focusing on LTV, if we focus on the actual input that achieves the high LTV, then that's really where the work goes too.

00:17:51:19 - 00:18:22:14
Joe Testouri
So right now we're working with coaches, consultants and talent advisors. Sweet Spot is typically $1,000,000 in revenue and we're looking to fix that business within a 12 month period by essentially ripping out where they're probably using people, humans in roles that inefficient, making those team members more and more efficient or actually obsolete, and then also building out custom systems to help them acquire new clients and also acquire new clients.

00:18:22:14 - 00:18:28:27
Joe Testouri
They've got the cash to reinvest into their business and. GROSS That's what we're doing right now.

00:18:28:27 - 00:18:53:01
Eric Josovitz
That's great. So what is what is the feedback that you're getting from prospects and your clients? And I want to dive a little bit deeper and I in a moment, but now AI is so prevalent, everyone knows what techy beauty is and what the the you know, the key AI tools are, but they don't know deeper into the tools that you guys are using.

00:18:53:15 - 00:19:05:07
Eric Josovitz
But there are a lot of people that do understand that. What's the the feedback that you get when you when you pitch, what you can build for these companies?

00:19:05:07 - 00:19:37:15
Joe Testouri
The the hardest challenge. So as you said, people everyone's using church procedure, so it's not secret any more. There's nothing to and the most sophisticated entrepreneurs, maybe they've got a few stacks of their own. The biggest challenge is going from this is what your problem is to this is what the solution is. And I think what we've experienced is if we can actually demo what a system looks like, we'll actually give people feedback and experience.

00:19:37:15 - 00:20:16:05
Joe Testouri
So one of our main acquisition channels is code outreach via email and we've built for our own business and for a few of our clients, we've built custom stores. And what that means in layman's terms is instead of previously having to have a human emailing back saying Hi, we'll book you in for a meeting or an interview or whatever, there's an agent which does all the work in the background, so it will analyze their calendar, It will see that you've got or you've said, I'll only take meetings between ten and 12 on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and then 4 to 6 once I've picked up the kids from school.

00:20:16:19 - 00:20:47:14
Joe Testouri
And then that's that on Monday and Friday. And it was essentially figure out all of the gaps in your calendar and then just book the prospects in to your calendar all automatically. So that's one use case. Now, typically, if you needed an appointment setting agency before, you might have paid them $2,000 per month. But you can get this now all wrapped up into one with an agent that can respond to emails within 2 to 3 minutes on the weekends whenever you want.

00:20:48:01 - 00:21:12:14
Joe Testouri
And it will do a better job than humans 99% of the time. So that's an example. I think there's a lot of skepticism in the market. People are thinking and there's a bit of resistance as to does this actually work. So our job, our most important job right now is to educate people through that process, to show them this is how this system works.

00:21:12:14 - 00:21:32:19
Joe Testouri
Here's a use case as to how it works and here's all skin in the game. So you're not making a big gamble or taking a big lead to start adopting this because it's always the first step. You know as well as I do. Stepping onto the jujitsu mats, the first step is the hardest, and eventually you put in, you feel that trust and.

00:21:34:26 - 00:22:03:25
Eric Josovitz
That's really good. I think showing the prospect what you can do a clear visual example is a great first step, and I've found that sometimes selling a monthly recurring subscription isn't the first start. It's, Hey, you know what we can do? We can build this for you. It's a project. And then, look, if you if you, you know, if we hit our goals and you trust us, let us continue to to grow your business.

00:22:04:02 - 00:22:22:26
Eric Josovitz
Right. And I think gaining that trust with people, especially when you talk, hold outreach, even referrals a little bit, there's still some level of trust that you have to gain. But with cold outreach, you have to gain their trust. Then you try to do that within the first couple of months. And I always say it's cheaper to keeper, right?

00:22:22:26 - 00:22:43:24
Eric Josovitz
It's cheaper to keep a client than go get a new one. And I think that's so I think that's so important. But adoption is going to continue to increase. And I think the lesson here is get on the bandwagon, get on or be left behind. Would you agree?

00:22:45:02 - 00:23:08:15
Joe Testouri
I was reading another quote recently. It was I people shouldn't be afraid of AI. They should be afraid of the people who are implementing and adopting A.I. right now. I mean I mean, there's a big argument about superintelligence and that there's a risk factor that loads of world leaders have signed to say there is a very big risk to humanity.

00:23:08:15 - 00:23:30:00
Joe Testouri
And, you know, Musk has gone on record say there's a 20% risk that air will literally wipe out the human race. So that is that's a real threat that people should be looking at. And that is one of the big I mean, that is the biggest downside to A.I.. But right now, you come on, let's just take charge of it.

00:23:30:05 - 00:24:10:20
Joe Testouri
You've got all of these agents and these alarms that integrate into large numbers modules that you integrate into your workflows and everything you're doing, but you're competing against another financial advisory firm. I'm competing against another AI consultancy. We're competing for the same client. So it's about who can use their efficiencies of resources better. There's a step that I saw recently that was saying by 2035 with the implementation of and it's going to be crazy what's going to happen in the next ten years that businesses will become 40% more productive, which essentially means that profit margins are going to become more efficient.

00:24:10:29 - 00:24:30:12
Joe Testouri
They can scale quicker. They'll probably be able to put their prices down as well because essentially it's like rolling out a Ford. If it takes you a week to produce a Ford and it takes five different employees, if you can do that for a Ford as production line and it takes whatever, 5 hours, then you're working at economies of scale.

00:24:30:12 - 00:24:38:05
Joe Testouri
You're playing different games against your competitors. So yeah, that's kind of my my overarching it.

00:24:38:05 - 00:25:13:11
Eric Josovitz
From there revenue increases and your margins increase. It's a it's twofold. You're getting both. Tell me tell me what you're using specifically in A.I., what tools you're using, and you don't have to go down the rabbit hole because I know there's some that, you know, the average Joe is not going to be able to pick up. But for the average Joe and business man woman, what are some A.I. tools other than just the normal techy P.T. Can people start using that?

00:25:13:11 - 00:25:16:12
Eric Josovitz
You'd recommend?

00:25:16:12 - 00:25:38:02
Joe Testouri
So I'll give you my recommendation if someone was in a camp manager or sellers room, because that's quite typically what I do day to day. I will give a few. I give my little stack of things that I use day to day that just make me way quicker and I know there's a few that use it. So whisper flow, one that is so powerful.

00:25:38:06 - 00:26:01:14
Joe Testouri
And for those of you, what's whisper flow it, You literally press phone on your keyboard, you talk to your keyboard and whatever you you want to write out it will. You can just say it writes it down on emails within search bars, wherever. So I think that's one of the best tools I use. And you can often spacebar can talk in front of the room, get stuff done.

00:26:01:14 - 00:26:34:11
Joe Testouri
So if someone's looking at becoming more efficient, that's really quick. So there are a few snags with it. But hey, I think that's nice. So we put Firefly's note taker into our course and I think there's so many great use cases for that. Not only can you get transcripts and summaries of your conversations and then throw it into your presentation builder like Gamma, which is another AI to spot G a dot AP app that's that's great presentations who can.

00:26:34:11 - 00:26:55:18
Joe Testouri
It's just making you more efficient quicker it's more professional than any presentation I'd be able to make on Canva. I remember we had to design a London based designer based in the team a couple of years ago and I asked her to and it was a great job, a fantastic job. She made a sales presentation, but it took ages.

00:26:56:04 - 00:27:21:03
Joe Testouri
And when I just compare the investment into karma, which I don't know how much of it, it's $10 a month, but the point is, is the investments, most of these tools and tech stacks are so insignificant that if you were to pay someone to do that or you go on Upwork, you get someone to do this. Previously a couple of years ago, probably going to pay $300 to get this done is going to be things you have to go back and forth with.

00:27:21:17 - 00:27:45:16
Joe Testouri
And I think one of the smartest ways of implementing A.I. is if and I know you've got this in your team as well, but bring in an executive assistant, have them be the intermediary for these lower, lower value tasks, high leverage tasks, have them do it, teach them the systems, and then go and overlook it and then understand what's working where.

00:27:45:17 - 00:28:11:04
Joe Testouri
So that is as a quick root of my stack. The more complex things would be the custom agents that we build. We're working on an AI style right now, which every week. So we're just testing this out manually, just getting feedback from them. We use Claude for that just because as a language model, in my opinion, it sounds more human than open our own chat.

00:28:11:04 - 00:28:39:23
Joe Testouri
CBT but we're running a weekly prompts where it's going to scrape my links and we're going to test this amongst a few of our clients as well. This is one thing we always do forever testing a new use case similar to what you're talking about. To just sell our clients on the innovation. We give them a trial for a month and that for us is it's low pressure feedback for us, it's low risk for them and it's high reward if actually it does work and it's very tangible.

00:28:39:23 - 00:29:00:03
Joe Testouri
We're looking at, well, your content, your engagement was X before, Now it's this. And essentially what we're doing there is we're able to scrape all of their posts from that month and then see what's the best performing content, look at commonalities between those posts. And then instead of just going back and taking those ideas, actually spits this out.

00:29:00:03 - 00:29:21:24
Joe Testouri
Content ideas based off that. So it looks at the content in a creative destruction fashion where it's not just saying, Hey, this is what works really well, saying here's what's worked, here's what works really well, here's examples of what we can do, and then iterate it for you afterwards. So that's those are a few of the tools that I use.

00:29:21:24 - 00:29:27:09
Joe Testouri
And is there a few of the innovations that we're working on right now?

00:29:27:09 - 00:29:58:03
Eric Josovitz
We should probably connect on the LinkedIn piece because we paused it. We were using Hey Reach and there were some issues with LinkedIn blocking profiles. So we said, Let's connect on that afterwords. And to your point on whisper flow and Gamma Gamma is so powerful, you can put your branding, your company branding and all your presentations can be branded so adaptive.

00:29:58:03 - 00:30:29:07
Eric Josovitz
So we got the blue and white and gray and all everything is is branded for us. And it can, with just a quick prompt, you can create a 10 to 20 or even more slide deck. We'll use it for our weekly company meetings. And you know, nowadays creating an investor presentation investor deck which to your point $300 would be to create like the first page of it, it was more like $3,000, 3000 U.S. dollars.

00:30:30:12 - 00:30:55:08
Eric Josovitz
And it's giving it's also doing the research and, you know, giving you time and all kinds of things. And of course, with with touch powered, you can you can supercharge it. Whisper flow has been game changing for me because it's cross-platform. You can use it on your phone, on your computer across any apps. I haven't done this yet, but have you seen the snippets that they have in there?

00:30:56:06 - 00:30:57:07
Joe Testouri
I haven't some of them.

00:30:58:21 - 00:31:28:20
Eric Josovitz
So you can put like a specific shortcut. So let's say, you know, it's like they have the dictionary so you can start adding to your dictionary. There's certain words that you say that are that they don't only have, but then this is like, yeah, this is like, hey insert, insert my intro email for this boom. It'll already, it'll, it'll drop that intro email, drop my calendar link in there or drop my personal email in there and it'll, it'll do it for you.

00:31:28:26 - 00:31:30:07
Eric Josovitz
So it's like, it's like shortcuts.

00:31:31:16 - 00:32:02:19
Joe Testouri
That's very clever. There you go. And I think one thing about technology now and this is a big thing that people say before technology is not the bottleneck for growth anymore. Previously, if you wanted to start an e-commerce business, you would have had to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a WordPress store. And then Shopify came along and then you have templates and then you have everything you can walk off and literally take Gymshark as an example.

00:32:03:02 - 00:32:36:28
Joe Testouri
They are a probably multibillion dollar valued business now, and everything with infrastructure is based off of Shopify. So if you look at that, if you're a clothing brand, a retail store who was thinking of Shopify, you've got a use case, they've a multibillion dollar brand who's done it through that. And a lot of the time and again with AI you can go into AI and Chatbot is only as clever to an extent as the promise you give it.

00:32:36:28 - 00:33:08:00
Joe Testouri
So you could say, operate as a McKinsey and Bain Consulting. For me, who is looking at how to scale this business from X to Y, use Gymshark as a case study and understand what are the first five steps that they undertook to grow their business from 0 to £1000000 of dollars, whatever. And just thinking in reverse engineering from this, I really believe that the level and the the reach of technology right now, how close it is to everyone, just gets people.

00:33:08:09 - 00:33:12:29
Joe Testouri
Everyone is at such a different playing field as to what they were two years ago.

00:33:12:29 - 00:33:36:11
Eric Josovitz
Yeah, it's unbelievable. We could probably do a podcast on AI alone and I'd love to do that one day. This is usually the time where we talk about the growth under pressure moment, and I want to unpack a time in, in your, in your career when you were like, I don't know if I'm going to make it tomorrow.

00:33:36:11 - 00:33:51:05
Eric Josovitz
I don't know if I'm going to be here. This is this is a disaster. Can you think of that one time and walk us through the feelings and how you got out of it? Because you did get out of it because you're here now.

00:33:51:05 - 00:34:20:26
Joe Testouri
That's it. You just you went or you learn. That question is an easy one for me to answer. And I was on a podcast last Christmas and one of my friend's podcast and I actually spoke about for the first time publicly. Then So it's a very, very clear, clear memory as to what happened. So it was May 14, 2022.

00:34:20:26 - 00:34:53:20
Joe Testouri
Long story short, I was scammed for just under £53,000, so about 70 $75,000. And it was it was a long, long process. It was, yeah. Anyways, I was scammed and this was my my business account. Literally more or less everything. We had cash in cash and bank at the time. So it happened. And then I went through this process of chasing the bank up, understanding where the the mishap happened and who's liability was, whose accountability it was.

00:34:54:13 - 00:35:15:27
Joe Testouri
And in that period, my main forward focus was we need to make payroll at the end of the month. And I think just to make payroll, let alone mine, was £10,000, which for me at the time was just I was crazy. It was like, Well, we've got nothing. We need to make ten K by the end of this month.

00:35:16:13 - 00:35:41:24
Joe Testouri
So and it'll be interesting you as a as a essentially advisory financial advisory CFO, what you would recommend. But I took the first thing I did is I maxed out as many credit lines as I could. So I four and this was my my philosophy. I would rather die on my sword than lay down on my back. I would I want to make sure that all of these members are paid this month.

00:35:42:11 - 00:36:02:01
Joe Testouri
And if we can't make next month for them, that's it. So I've done the best I can do and we'll try to survive. And I remember that month we just made payroll. We ended up getting all of the cash in which to say to ourselves, Guys, look, you're just you're not getting bonuses or you're not getting any commission.

00:36:02:01 - 00:36:26:24
Joe Testouri
That's it. You get your base. Okay, There you are as ever. And to be fair, I can't fault anyone in the team, so I give them all credit that. Anyway, long story short, I sat everyone down, an individual call and told them the situation. I feel it doesn't make sense to send them on scene. Who? We had our team call and I just kind of spun off with everyone individually said, Look, can I swear on this podcast?

00:36:28:09 - 00:36:28:19
Eric Josovitz
Sure.

00:36:29:24 - 00:36:48:25
Joe Testouri
I said, This is a situation where if we don't get this of your jobs, I need you to work like you've never worked before. My sole focus is on So in this situation out, I'm obviously going to check in every single day. But if we don't get this solved and there is no business, you do not have jobs.

00:36:49:09 - 00:37:15:10
Joe Testouri
Next month, players will become insolvent and there's no pay packages. This this business is going down and there's no choice because we wouldn't be able to make a VAT that was coming up taxes. That was you as you know, everything that goes into a business. So anyways, I made this and this is I remember I was with my mum visiting family in Ireland and she said something really profound to me.

00:37:15:10 - 00:37:34:22
Joe Testouri
I felt a bit pissed at the moment, but she said, Don't be a victim. As I was playing a bit as a victim, naturally, as you would, just Come on, why is this happened to me? How am I so stupid? Or all of these things? And it just it was one of those moments. I went on a walk, looked over the cliffs.

00:37:34:22 - 00:37:51:28
Joe Testouri
There's nothing tragic is coming here. But I just thought to myself, literally, you've got to become a fucking duck. You just got to look at this situation and think, How can you spin it? Just stop wallowing, get up. Yeah. You've had a crappy Friday. You broke down. I had one guy in the team. He's a contractor. I said everyone was great.

00:37:51:28 - 00:38:12:00
Joe Testouri
He was very nice. I said Your job is just to keep this account. And it was a double account. It was a great account that we had, and he just lost it. And I just thought you just. That showed me who really cared and who didn't. And lo and behold, I got rid of him the next month just because he was he was toxic to the team and that whole experience.

00:38:12:11 - 00:38:38:27
Joe Testouri
So it's to kind of get to the end. He took exactly a month before the money returned to me in the bank. The bank gave us a refund and again, to become a dog, I, I pretty much friend my bank at the time and said if this situation isn't sorted, we're going to take this to the press. And I was a kid, you know, you might feel like this is what you call an ultimatum or whatever, but it sure is.

00:38:39:13 - 00:39:04:10
Joe Testouri
And I give credit to the guy who was in charge of the finance division or the regulatory position. He used to be a financial omnibus, which in the UK is basically someone who looks objective at something and says, who's in the wrong? And he said, okay, I tell you what, hands up. We made a big, negligible mistake. And I remember the 14th of June that money came back to me and I remember reading the email.

00:39:04:10 - 00:39:25:10
Joe Testouri
They sent me an email four or five days before they sent the money back. And I remember reading it and it was the longest email I've ever read in my life. My hands were sweating and I was that. I remember. Then they said, We'll give you money back. And the guy who I used to from, of course we've mentioned to you, but he was the first guy I called because he helps me push it forward to the press.

00:39:25:10 - 00:39:49:13
Joe Testouri
So I'm, I can't find out enough and that's it. And yeah, that was the moment. So that whole month was just a crazy ordeal. But I have to say that was one of the best lessons I've ever gone for a business, and I hope I don't repeat it, but it showed me that and this was something I never really fully understood until I went through that process.

00:39:49:13 - 00:40:07:19
Joe Testouri
But one of the best pieces of business advice I got from an old client of mine who is a fantastic Uncle Tom, he said, Stay, stay as long as possible, for as long as possible. And that was the moment. And if that moment didn't have happened, I probably would have just gone off the road and just making more money than you could think of, just spending it.

00:40:07:20 - 00:40:24:04
Joe Testouri
I wasn't really managing my finances, but to the point it really got me to reassess and just think, Do you need all this extra stuff that's going on? And as well, a quote that we use in jujitsu a lot of the time is stay humble. You can literally go from here all the way to here in no time.

00:40:24:04 - 00:40:26:00
Joe Testouri
So that's my growth. On the pressure story.

00:40:27:18 - 00:40:47:02
Eric Josovitz
Man. There's so much to unpack there. Let me start by saying great job. I'm sure when you found out that the bank was going to cover it, that was your best day. That was the best day in your life. We were, you know, celebrating one of the biggest wins, even though I was just getting back to to zero two net neutral.

00:40:48:05 - 00:41:08:09
Eric Josovitz
I always tell my kids, don't act like a victim because no one else is going to feel sorry for you. They're not you're not going to go out in the street and someone's just waiting for you to come to them and and put your head on their shoulder. That's not the way the world works. There are some really good people, but for the most part, you got to take control of your life.

00:41:09:24 - 00:41:12:22
Eric Josovitz
Can you tell us exactly what happened with the scam?

00:41:14:10 - 00:41:40:25
Joe Testouri
Yeah. So what happened was, was I filled out and at the time I felt like a fucking idiot. So stupid. But I. A call on a Saturday first. Just again, ironically. And this guy said, Hey, is this He knew this info about me. He called me from the banks phone number and he said, Is this just a story?

00:41:40:25 - 00:42:00:06
Joe Testouri
Yada, yada, yada. Can you confirm, were you in Manchester last night at this time? No, I'm in London. He got he knew all of my info. So he he had he had two levels up on me. So we're on this call. He's like, okay, there's a transaction 500 and something pound to this business. Do you recognize it? No, it's another transaction to this business.

00:42:00:19 - 00:42:32:06
Joe Testouri
Do you recognize it now? Okay. You've been the victim of financial crime. Went on with this tangent. I'm walking back home now. Remember, we're on the phone for about 3 hours and he basically called himself Mark and he he turned around and said that he was there to essentially just safeguard the money from everything, all accounts. And then this is where, my God, sausage is raised.

00:42:32:18 - 00:43:09:08
Joe Testouri
And he said, okay, I'm going to need you to transfer the money from one account to another. And and I was like, okay, well, part of my skeptical skepticism, but what if this isn't the scam? And and is that trick of and it's the thing and I think at the time of 27 you think this happened to me I can see how it happens to the elderly and they get it's crazy but there was just like this mental fatigue these wearing on and just putting fear and what we need to protect your accounts the banks running a skeleton skeleton crew today and I was like well I'm not sending over any money unless I know.

00:43:10:01 - 00:43:31:03
Joe Testouri
And what he did is he had the tech in place where he infiltrated all of my text messages with the bank the one time. Okay, This one time of this, the one time codes, you know, I'm talking about. So infiltrate those texts and sent me a code and said, don't tell me the code, I'm going to read it to you.

00:43:31:23 - 00:43:54:22
Joe Testouri
And that was it. That's where I got my guard down and I was essentially I sent over the money, but it makes me sound very stupid. But in the case in the scenarios, what if I was being wound down by someone in the sense of they they call it up or they put your guard down. You've built trust with them.

00:43:55:06 - 00:44:20:23
Joe Testouri
They've explained that they know all of these idiosyncrasies about you, your business, that it just it sounds as though it's a guy very high up in a bank and his position is called the police to get crime reference number. All of these just very, very sophisticated, convoluted methods of extracting the right information out from you as time has gone on.

00:44:21:04 - 00:44:29:28
Joe Testouri
I guess he's an expert. He's an expert. He was an expert conman and yeah, that was pretty much the story.

00:44:29:28 - 00:45:04:04
Eric Josovitz
Well, they thought of these you know, these pretty much any any like pushback or any any scenario. They've they've they've already thought about all these different paths that it can go. And they're there. They're ahead of you. And it's it's not wrong to say that you feel stupid. But even in finance and accounting, I've gone through things like that, but it's learning from them to see what you can do in the future and, you know, put those controls in place.

00:45:04:15 - 00:45:22:26
Eric Josovitz
And now it sounds like you have those controls in place. You work a fractional CFO, right? And was that kind of like, how is good Finance financial advisor The been for you guys? How has that helped you?

00:45:22:26 - 00:45:56:03
Joe Testouri
It's a great question. I would say I've got an amazing accountant right now. He's terrific. He knows everything he's doing. He's just he's so spot on. And I think naturally most business owners, they go through they go through the mill of people and so they find someone. I guess it's like dating's like a relationship. You go through all these systems or you go through all of these experiences and this is a big thing I've looked at is is so crucial to make sure you've got the right team and infrastructure around you.

00:45:56:16 - 00:46:28:16
Joe Testouri
So it's about keeping people, the right people around. To your question, I am. What's the book slipped my mind. I think it was the IMF or is a book that I read a couple of years ago that essentially said the the best teams are split between finance guy sales guy on operations guy and you can never find a very, very successful very good business where the founder the managing director does everything.

00:46:29:01 - 00:46:56:14
Joe Testouri
And the way how I see is as business owners, we've got all these plates being spun. You mentioned let's have a conversation about linked and fundamentally you in the team you spin in this linked template, but has you got enough momentum spinning and finance and I was on a coaching call earlier today but the most important function of any business is cash flow, making sure that your net positive, you're not going to run out of cash, you're not going to get in trouble with the taxman.

00:46:57:00 - 00:47:15:10
Joe Testouri
Uncle Sam isn't going to come knocking. There's no issues there. So why, even though I've got a degree in business too, I think it's clever of me to try and spin this play that should be spun 100 miles per hour or can just give it to you and you just know how to spin it. That, for me is one of the smartest moves that someone can make.

00:47:15:10 - 00:47:45:10
Joe Testouri
And I speak to a lot of newfound entrepreneurs who try to keep their accounting, finance and cash flow forecasting internally. It's good to have a good insight on it. Absolutely. You need to as a business owner, but if I was to look at anything, I would say the two first rows that I would look to outsource, first of all, would be finance, because I think you can't mess around with finance and just where it just that's where you get caught.

00:47:45:10 - 00:48:04:10
Joe Testouri
And I'm sure you've seen some cases where you've started working with someone you've opened up and it's a can of worms and that never works. So I think having the right finance guy in place or go in place is to any business.

00:48:04:10 - 00:48:28:28
Eric Josovitz
Well, I certainly agree. You know, I'm drinking my own juice here. I definitely believe that getting a strong CFO or even just someone, a controller, that you can run things by, like if you got that call and you had a controller, you call them, you say, Hey, I got this call, want to run it by you? Most likely the first thing you want to do is that's that's not real.

00:48:30:02 - 00:48:49:18
Eric Josovitz
Thanks for things for checking in with me. Don't answer. Ignore it. And we see stuff like that all the time. I love hearing that story. Thank you for sharing it with us. I want to talk little bit about the startup world and how it can feel dog eat dog at times, which I think it is. It's just it's ground game.

00:48:49:29 - 00:49:04:15
Eric Josovitz
Give us the good, the bad in truth of being a founder, CEO and the parts that don't make the highlight reel in. And frankly, how does jujitsu help you weather those storms?

00:49:04:15 - 00:49:45:07
Joe Testouri
One amazing question, Eric, The good, the bad, the things that don't make the final cuts. And how does jujitsu help business? I think and this is a lens I've really tried to operate from at least in the last 18 months, and I'll explain why the last 18 months or so in the back end of 2022, I suffered a really traumatic back injury, so I slipped through discs in my lower back and it was there, happened September 2022, gave me problems until the end of New Year's, and then I was in the gym on New Year's Eve.

00:49:45:07 - 00:50:19:01
Joe Testouri
2022 was in Vietnam, running every day between. Again, the Christmas to New Year's period is, I think, free k a day in Vietnam, going to the gym. So 2024 is going to be my year. I had all these plans, all of these goals want to scale the business to this level had I was I remember just so excited and the kids you know I with my ex we went to this beach party and I'm in an island of a Vietnamese island called Phu Quoc, I believe it's called Anyways, went to this party, amazing party.

00:50:19:01 - 00:50:42:11
Joe Testouri
And I was telling her my back hurts a little bit. I've had a history of back injuries. The next morning I could barely go toilet properly. I could barely bend over and literally from January 1st, 2020, free until near enough, the end of the at soccer, as you guys would call it, football for us. I remember I kicked my first football and it was like a week before Christmas.

00:50:42:14 - 00:51:03:24
Joe Testouri
So I was literally I just didn't do anything. I couldn't run until the May of that year. I wasn't able to exercise properly. I was just I was that. And I remember saying to myself, you just the quote is when you when you have good health, you want a thousand things in your life and you don't have good health.

00:51:03:24 - 00:51:30:21
Joe Testouri
You want one thing, good health. And I always fought myself and I literally pinned start 2024 up and said my number one priority this year, it's going to be my health and everything else would be a by product. Again, that's kind of like if we if I focus on customer first, then the input of increased LTV making more revenue will happen as a byproduct instead of focusing on the other things.

00:51:31:07 - 00:51:54:23
Joe Testouri
So the big thing that I fought for was health. I think the great thing you get from entrepreneurship is now at least pretty much every day. I feel grateful for. I feel that I have the privilege of being next to what I do. I don't say to myself, I have to do this. I literally have my to do list here.

00:51:54:23 - 00:52:23:13
Joe Testouri
I keep. It's so old school, so old fashioned I'll never use. I might do this. I always keep it stiff. You know, I literally just have most people next to me was put down my thoughts for the day and keep it really glamorous but unglamorous work. So the point I'm making is, is I think treating every day as though it's an opportunity I've been blessed to have means that I've rarely ever looked at things as the negatives.

00:52:23:13 - 00:52:49:06
Joe Testouri
And even when challenges do come like that Black Swan event happened a few years ago, that was awful, that when something so minuscule happens like a client chance or you make a mistake, you just realize actually these issues are so insignificant towards what I'm doing day to day. So I think the good is that I have the opportunity to come on podcasts like yours.

00:52:49:18 - 00:53:15:22
Joe Testouri
I have the opportunity to work with amazing clients. I have the opportunity to pay people. I've got people in my team that I know and it's not me sounding arcane or obnoxious, but I I'm changing their lives through the impact and the work that we do have clients and I'm able to pay these people the the bad stuff, the unsexy stuff would be suppose they're counting having to get statements over paying the bills.

00:53:16:08 - 00:53:38:23
Joe Testouri
A guy I met paying payroll in the last Friday of the month, probably my least favorite activity of the month. Just knowing that you've got a whole sum of money that sometimes you look at and you're like, Actually, that's quite nice. But again, that's where integrity comes from and it's got to do what you have to do. So I'd say quite honestly, paying people in a month is is the least sexy thing.

00:53:38:23 - 00:53:59:23
Joe Testouri
But again, I get to do that. If we didn't make money, then I wouldn't have people to pay. So it's a by product. And then I think the thing is it doesn't it doesn't really get the limelight, which too often is is probably just those I call them trend shows where you're just in the background, you're doing work that isn't sexy.

00:53:59:23 - 00:54:21:29
Joe Testouri
Sometimes you go to a coffee shop just to make it a bit more lighter, write in a notebook the plans, what you're going to execute on, what needs to be done and I think quite honestly, to put the cherry on the cake, that is also being Chris caught honest with yourself and saying, Why am I not the gold I want to hit already?

00:54:22:11 - 00:54:48:11
Joe Testouri
What are the internal bottlenecks and external bottlenecks that we have in our business right now? I'm not fixing the cause. Quite often I think entrepreneurs biggest bottlenecks are themselves. Every business owner I speak to you speak to you, speak to anyone else. I'd 99% of business owners want to make more money, and if they were Chris cool, they could bullshit people and say, Oh, the market, the economy.

00:54:48:11 - 00:55:16:00
Joe Testouri
But I think if they literally they focus more on maybe I'm selling my own services, but if they focus more on client acquisition and they of if we actually doubled our outbound activities, if we spent more money on ads, if we just thought up the cranks, would that help me get to my goal quicker? And I look at myself at times and think, okay, what the what the inputs I'm not putting into my business every single day to hit those goals.

00:55:16:00 - 00:55:42:23
Joe Testouri
So that's probably the the thing that isn't really spoken about, but it's just the honest truth that we need to say to ourselves as entrepreneurs is to my opinion. And then to your last point, which was what is jujitsu? How does that connect over to entrepreneurship? I think we use the expression early, but stay humble and I try not to see things as so much as dog eat, dog or competition.

00:55:42:23 - 00:56:06:24
Joe Testouri
I see it as I've got so many friends who run similar businesses to me. We don't compete with each other because there's enough people out there competing. If you collaborate, you can get much further, much quicker. And that's where I think my mindset shifted. And I think equally in jiu jitsu, you're White Belt and I'm sure you're going to play out very, very soon.

00:56:06:24 - 00:56:24:11
Joe Testouri
But you realize that you're not necessarily competing against the white belts to get your blue, but it's based off of your journey. If you don't turn up or if you don't do the work, your coach says to you, then like everyone else can do all the work, They're going to get it white. Those what there is and why.

00:56:24:13 - 00:56:38:26
Joe Testouri
I've realized probably the best way to is jiu jitsu. And business is not a zero sum game. It's a game where you can succeed. They can succeed, and that's the same in business. I'd love to get your perspective as well.

00:56:38:26 - 00:57:13:26
Eric Josovitz
I think that whole be humble is in the parallel between I mean, you said it best, the parallel between business and jujitsu. They're so similar in the sense that when someone starts it, they're scared to start it or they're interested in starting it, but they have no idea what they're getting into. And even as a white belt, blue belt, purple belt, frankly, you still don't realize how much further you have to go and that you do have to show up every day.

00:57:13:26 - 00:57:39:24
Eric Josovitz
It's the you know, and I'm going to get my blue belt this month. I think something's got pushed back, injuries and scheduling, but my coach knows that I show up every day or every, you know, three days a week at 12:00 noon, and he knows he can count on me being there. Whereas other people, they get injured, they make excuses.

00:57:40:04 - 00:58:06:10
Eric Josovitz
And look, I've, I've shown up and it's it's been painful. My back has hurt my hip, my knee. And I still do it. I just do it at a different pace. And a lot of it is mental. That's the same thing with business. It's sitting down at your computer, even if your brain is not there and it's being there for your team, being there for your clients and still making that.

00:58:06:10 - 00:58:29:06
Eric Josovitz
You know, back to the original question on growth, it's just being consistent day in and day out and approach it with a sense of love. There's a there's a book called Leadership and Self-deception by the Binger Institute, and I think this is one book that everyone should read because it teaches you to get out of the box and approach your peers with love.

00:58:29:16 - 00:59:00:04
Eric Josovitz
It's like, look, Joe, you could you could have came on here today and, you know, had had a lot of stuff going on. But, you know, if I if I approached you with open arms and come from a place of love, you want to share more, you want to be more open. And that goes back to community. And just like you said, sharing life with other people, other humans that can you know, that can resonate with you.

00:59:00:04 - 00:59:08:21
Eric Josovitz
And that's that's it. It's it's it's being humble. Back to your original point.

00:59:08:21 - 00:59:09:24
Joe Testouri
It's just a great.

00:59:09:24 - 00:59:13:00
Eric Josovitz
Place to wrap up. Yeah. Yeah. Please.

00:59:13:28 - 00:59:42:22
Joe Testouri
I am I was I was talking to a guest on my own podcast today, and he works in the space of the diversity, equity and inclusion. And I remember when I was working in the city, I really didn't like the environment that I was in. And I think for me, and this is our responsibility as founders is to engineer the best environment possible for our team members.

00:59:42:22 - 01:00:12:07
Joe Testouri
I never call anyone who works with me an employee, their team members because at the end of the day they've got agency over their lives and maybe I've got direction of what they do at work. But all people at the end of the day, and it's about having that level of respect to people. But I think if we can make environments where work feels, I claim that things aren't always supposed to be fun, as supposed to be tough, you're supposed to go for the goal and realize, actually this is challenging because that's where curve comes from.

01:00:12:07 - 01:00:19:13
Joe Testouri
Growing under pressure and grappling with growth. If we're going to plug both of our focus. So those are my final thoughts.

01:00:21:00 - 01:00:36:09
Eric Josovitz
Perfect. Let's wrap up there. I feel that we could do another hour, but let's finish up with a rapid fire. Quick, three questions. First one, what's one metric you check every single week without fail.

01:00:38:00 - 01:00:41:13
Joe Testouri
My bank account.

01:00:41:13 - 01:00:50:13
Eric Josovitz
That's a good one. I know you mentioned LTV churn. Those are of course big ones, but bank account is important. Weekly, daily.

01:00:50:13 - 01:00:53:05
Joe Testouri
Just cash, literally. Just how is the cash reserve doing?

01:00:54:24 - 01:01:07:26
Eric Josovitz
Yeah. You know, if you see that big change, something's wrong. You have to contact the bank or CFO, recommend one book podcast or speech for the listeners.

01:01:09:19 - 01:01:19:10
Joe Testouri
Who my favorite book of all time is Man Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl.

01:01:19:10 - 01:01:32:18
Eric Josovitz
That's great. And you mentioned some air ones have some others that we've talked about in the podcast that will will list one last question. Complete this sentence for me. A founder under pressure should always.

01:01:34:28 - 01:01:46:25
Joe Testouri
A founder under pressure should always be questioned. If I'm under pressure, I should always push for the challenge.

01:01:46:25 - 01:02:00:08
Eric Josovitz
I thought you were going to say be humble. Awesome. Joe, you have a ton of knowledge, man. This was fun. I can't wait till the next time. Thanks again for joining me.

01:02:00:08 - 01:02:01:26
Joe Testouri
Thank you so much. I appreciate you.